ECS 2-Piece Rotors???

[STi_traitor]

Does anyone have experience with ECS 2-piece rotors. The price seems reasonable and they looked good. I am interested for serious track this season.

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E90-M3-...ors/ES2712810/

[W///]

Really good looking rotors. Haven't seen these before. Do you already have pads?

[mkPOTO]

it is interesting, i might have to grab a set

[STi_traitor]

Originally Posted by W///

Really good looking rotors. Haven't seen these before. Do you already have pads?

I have ferodo 2500 for now. I am satisfyied with the setup I have now once I get the stainless steel lines but I was curious about these because they are good looking.

[dparm]

I too have questions:

1. How do the cooling veins compare to the stock ones?
2. Do the cooling veins line up correctly with the slots/holes?
3. Are the holes drilled or cast?
4. Why would I buy these as opposed to a stock rotor? (other than the miniscule unsprung weight savings)

[sensi09]

How much are the replacement rings?

For comparison, the 2 piece rotors from performance friction are 18lbs, a 4 pound saving per corner.

I think they look cool and should do fine for regular driving, but for extended track sessions I'd be more comfortable with stock. Now these might be great, just my impression of them. If the company that sourced the blanks was known, I'd probably be more likely to purchase these over stock.

[W///]

Originally Posted by sensi09

How much are the replacement rings?

For comparison, the 2 piece rotors from performance friction are 18lbs, a 4 pound saving per corner.

I think they look cool and should do fine for regular driving, but for extended track sessions I'd be more comfortable with stock. Now these might be great, just my impression of them. If the company that sourced the blanks was known, I'd probably be more likely to purchase these over stock.

The problem with those is that they are front only no? I think I'd care enough about the looks to have 2 pairs of different rotors.

[sensi09]

A quick google search shows that Schwaben may be the supplier. Any input into their products?

[STi_traitor]

Originally Posted by W///

The problem with those is that they are front only no? I think I'd care enough about the looks to have 2 pairs of different rotors.

They have rears as well. I thought at first they only had fronts but I looked a bit more.

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E90-M3-...ors/ES2712816/

[W///]

Originally Posted by STi_traitor

They have rears as well. I thought at first they only had fronts but I looked a bit more.

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E90-M3-...ors/ES2712816/

I was talking about the Performance Friction one

[STi_traitor]

Originally Posted by W///

I was talking about the Performance Friction one

My bad, I completely missed that. I may be skipping these (ECS) since very little is known about them.

[dparm]

Curious why ECS hasn't chimed in to answer some questions we have...

[STi_traitor]

Originally Posted by dparm

Curious why ECS hasn't chimed in to answer some questions we have...

+1

[STi_traitor]

I am on the edge for buying these but the price difference on their website between ECS Rotors and OEM is huge, mostly the rears. Roughly $100 dollar difference for the fronts and $300 for the rears. ECS if you could chime in?

[yandy]

Originally Posted by STi_traitor

I am on the edge for buying these but the price difference on their website between ECS Rotors and OEM is huge, mostly the rears. Roughly $100 dollar difference for the fronts and $300 for the rears. ECS if you could chime in?

I used their rotors at the track (on the 135i though) and they seemed to hold up fine. Only did put two weekends on them, I don't have that car anymore.

Not sure with the heavier ///M, but it's weird they haven't come in here yet

[STi_traitor]

Originally Posted by yandy

I used their rotors at the track (on the 135i though) and they seemed to hold up fine. Only did put two weekends on them, I don't have that car anymore.

Not sure with the heavier ///M, but it's weird they haven't come in here yet

Thanks for the input.

[ECSTuning]

Originally Posted by dparm

Curious why ECS hasn't chimed in to answer some questions we have...

Sorry for the delay guys, the thread slipped under my radar and I had to talk with our head engineer to insure correctness of my answers.

Originally Posted by dparm

I too have questions:

1. How do the cooling veins compare to the stock ones?
2. Do the cooling veins line up correctly with the slots/holes?
3. Are the holes drilled or cast?
4. Why would I buy these as opposed to a stock rotor? (other than the miniscule unsprung weight savings)

1 - like the factory veins the ECS rotors feature directional veins . Studies show this to be the most effective method for convective cooling. They offer significantly more cooling air velocity due their pumping action, as well as increased internal cooling surface area when compared to other rotor designs.

2 - There is no “correct” here. Our research has shown that the direction/orientation of the slot and/or cross drill pattern is not a significant factor to its performance or function. More important is the spacing of the pattern to provide adequate coverage of the rotor surface, as well as the profile of the slots and holes to reduce stress risers on the surface of the rotor. The holes promote cooling by increasing the surface area of the rotor exposed to cooling air, allowing cross flow, as well as allowing additional cool air flow into the vein structure. The slots are more effective at gas, water, and debris venting than the holes, and they continually wipe the surface of the pads to reduce the potential for glazing. These functions can happen regardless of vane/hole orientation.

Our pattern has been developed to work with the internal vein structure without compromising the vein integrity by drilling into a vane. The pattern is catered to each rotor blank we use and since our rotors are directionally veined, the vein pattern limits the fredom we have in our cross drill pattern. For directional rotors, the orientation of the veins is critical to proper rotor cooling, as the vein structure pumps cooling air from the hub to the outside of rotor.

3 - Our cross drilled rotors are drilled, as the description implies.

On this topic, there is a great deal of internet conjecture and myth surrounding this question. We have spent a great deal of time researching this topic, and have yet to find any proof that “cast in” rotor holes even exist. Currently, all that exists in the public domain is a few marketing brochures and a magazine article that claim the holes are cast in on the old 993tt rotor rings. No aftermarket companies, including Brembo, are currently advertising or selling rotors with “cast in” holes. We have carefully inspected these fabled 993tt rotor rings, and there are very clear signs of drill marks inside the holes, as well as the typical burrs on the inboard edges one would expect to see from the drilling process. That is not conclusive evidence that the holes weren’t first cast, then finish machined, but if that were the case then any improvement in grain structure would be even further negated. [ECS R&D will continue researching this topic until we know the truth.]

Even if there was conclusive proof that rotors from any manufacturer have been cast in, there is still nothing that would indicate a cast hole would offer a favorable, or lasting, difference in grain structure, or improve the residual stresses around the holes.

Our cross drilled rotors are stress relief heat treated to reduce residual stresses remaining from the casting and machining processes.

4 - Other than weight savings. The construction of the rotor (FC-30 iron ring with 6061-T6 aluminum hat, proper veins , etc) provides increased cooling capabilities. Replacement rotors cost is going provided savings over the original cost. And have you looked at them? They look amazing!

Originally Posted by sensi09

How much are the replacement rings?

We offer a slightly different take on replacement rings, full rotors at a discounted cost. Currently they are listed at
-Front $624.95*
-Rear $674.95*

I don't foresee a price change on these in the future, but as always prices are subject to change.

Originally Posted by sensi09

A quick google search shows that Schwaben may be the supplier. Any input into their products?

Schwaben Tools is simply one of our ECS brands.

Originally Posted by STi_traitor

I am on the edge for buying these but the price difference on their website between ECS Rotors and OEM is huge, mostly the rears. Roughly $100 dollar difference for the fronts and $300 for the rears. ECS if you could chime in?

The complexity of the rear rotor is much higher due to the integrated cast iron parking brake drum assembly.

-James

[Sandye90m3]

Originally Posted by ECSTuning

Sorry for the delay guys, the thread slipped under my radar and I had to talk with our head engineer to insure correctness of my answers.



1 - like the factory veins the ECS rotors feature directional veins. Studies show this to be the most effective method for convective cooling. They offer significantly more cooling air velocity due their pumping action, as well as increased internal cooling surface area when compared to other rotor designs.

2 - There is no “correct” here. Our research has shown that the direction/orientation of the slot and/or cross drill pattern is not a significant factor to its performance or function. More important is the spacing of the pattern to provide adequate coverage of the rotor surface, as well as the profile of the slots and holes to reduce stress risers on the surface of the rotor. The holes promote cooling by increasing the surface area of the rotor exposed to cooling air, allowing cross flow, as well as allowing additional cool air flow into the vein structure. The slots are more effective at gas, water, and debris venting than the holes, and they continually wipe the surface of the pads to reduce the potential for glazing. These functions can happen regardless of vein/hole orientation.

Our pattern has been developed to work with the internal vein structure without compromising the vein integrity by drilling into a vein. The pattern is catered to each rotor blank we use and since our rotors are directionally veined, the vein pattern limits the freedom we have in our cross drill pattern. For directional rotors, the orientation of the veins is critical to proper rotor cooling, as the vein structure pumps cooling air from the hub to the outside of rotor.

3 - Our cross drilled rotors are drilled, as the description implies.

On this topic, there is a great deal of internet conjecture and myth surrounding this question. We have spent a great deal of time researching this topic, and have yet to find any proof that “cast in” rotor holes even exist. Currently, all that exists in the public domain is a few marketing brochures and a magazine article that claim the holes are cast in on the old 993tt rotor rings. No aftermarket companies, including Brembo, are currently advertising or selling rotors with “cast in” holes. We have carefully inspected these fabled 993tt rotor rings, and there are very clear signs of drill marks inside the holes, as well as the typical burrs on the inboard edges one would expect to see from the drilling process. That is not conclusive evidence that the holes weren’t first cast, then finish machined, but if that were the case then any improvement in grain structure would be even further negated. [ECS R&D will continue researching this topic until we know the truth.]

Even if there was conclusive proof that rotors from any manufacturer have been cast in, there is still nothing that would indicate a cast hole would offer a favorable, or lasting, difference in grain structure, or improve the residual stresses around the holes.

Our cross drilled rotors are stress relief heat treated to reduce residual stresses remaining from the casting and machining processes.

4 - Other than weight savings. The construction of the rotor (FC-30 iron ring with 6061-T6 aluminum hat, proper veins, etc) provides increased cooling capabilities. Replacement rotors cost is going provided savings over the original cost. And have you looked at them? They look amazing!


We offer a slightly different take on replacement rings, full rotors at a discounted cost. Currently they are listed at
-Front $624.95*
-Rear $674.95*

I don't foresee a price change on these in the future, but as always prices are subject to change.



Schwaben Tools is simply one of our ECS brands.



The complexity of the rear rotor is much higher due to the integrated cast iron parking brake drum assembly.

-James

How long are they expected to last compared to the OEM M3 brakes?

Thanks,
Sandeep

[Richbot]

Vane, not vein

[ECSTuning]

Originally Posted by Sandye90m3

How long are they expected to last compared to the OEM M3 brakes?

Thanks,
Sandeep

Rotor life in general is going to heavily depend on vehicle use, pad choice, driving style, as well as material make up of the rotor. For holding up in track conditions, our E9X M rotors share the metallurgy with our E46 M, 335i, Audi R8, and a few of our other two piece rotors. My track guys running our E46 M rotors haven't reported any issues with accelerated wear. Most are still on their original set. We have a customer running them on his R8 track car. After last season with them he's been more than pleased, and will be running them in his coming season. He was able to send his first set back to us for R&D review, the rotors where near minimum thickens (which was expected), but showed no signs of failure. Expectations of life of these rotors is at or beyond the factory rotors depending on conditions they are subject to.


I can tell your also looking for deeper information, HERE is a link to an older post with some metallurgy information that is relevant to these rotors, as well as manufacturing information. For sake of openness the post linked is from THIS thread which was started by an upset customer.

-James

[W///]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

I just purchased a front set for my 1M (same as M3). I am over the POS rotors from BMW which have cooling issues. I am on my 3rd pair of BMW rotors after only 15,000km!! ...BMW refuse to address the issue as they state I track the car

Hopefully the ECS rotors are a better option.

Let us know how it goes please!

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

I just purchased a front set for my 1M (same as M3). I am over the POS rotors from BMW which have cooling issues. I am on my 3rd pair of BMW rotors after only 15,000km!! ...BMW refuse to address the issue as they state I track the car

Hopefully the ECS rotors are a better option.

im in the same boat....wonder how these will hold up over time w/ alot of track use...