[Nahlem]

So many people here who don't understands that "M" division is forced to go this way not by choice but by regulations and demands, If you wanna keep "M" available to as many people as possible, But charge extra for a "better" car then the standard. Then they have to adapt even if it means adding hybrid tech to their cars. Otherwise "M" would only available to a small market segment but when reading so many peoples posts here or on the forums overall it seems as this is exactly what some of you people want only make "M" available to certain people and that elitism won't work in this modern world anymore.

Some of you are gonna have to accept this sooner or later, Or don't buy new "M" at all, but don't keep spamming the same old same old "M" cars were better before.

Yes we are going towards hybrid/electric cars, because they perform better then just a plain old tech combustion engine who really isn't an effective way of propelling the cars considering how much energy is lost just to drive faster. And yes we are moving more towards autonomous driving why? Well simple because humans can't compete against computers in terms of avoiding accidents and such and why are we doing it? Because its 2016 and people are still dying in car accidents and that is starting to get old really old. The most urgent thing to resolve right now is how to make electric cars charge up really fast and how to make sure they can go further then right now. This is where Tesla is great they are simply forcing the other brands to develop electric cars faster and to contribute to the development of them, As Tesla is stealing loads of people from different brands and you don't want to lose costumers that is one thing that is for sure.

When are we going to see full electric "M" cars well probably not for another 10-15 years so relax people. What you can do instead of crying about the combustion engines starting to disappear is to help be part of an "M" future where its still a drivers car but who can meet the modern day regulations and demands so we won't see "M" division disappear for good. Every year the regulations are getting tougher and tougher and thus leaving the old combustion engine tech behind makes more sens and adapting to more environmental friendly cars. So don't force BMW and BMW M to having to think like this "Well if we gain 5 new customers to our brand but having to loose 1 "purist" or "fan" or "enthusiast" whatever you wanna call your self i think you know what BMWs answer will be. So better be a part of a future then to be cut out from it.

I truly believe that an "M" car can be both friendly towards our environment but also be a hell of a drivers car, While giving up something old for something new and better.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by krautmeister

BMW too will whore out their brand that they built with enthusiasts as Audi has and Mercedes has. They will convince all the lemmings that it's still legit, then when the market plateaus.... and economies have a hiccup, people will vote with the wallet and the M bastardization will end.

Just as well... millennial males are pussies and becoming more and more effeminate, so no amount of plaid or beard oil will substitute for real masculine attributes.

///M cars of yore are over. It is now a marketing buzzword.... and trust me, I'm a marketer and if I were in charge of BMW, I'd do that for short term payoff and peace out. They cannot ignore that kind of momentum and coin to ignore the sheep masses.

You're a legend sir! You had me until the final 3rd trimester of your rampage! (slow clap whilst looking concerned)

[N & M]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

I don't mind if they pump M models with all this tech AS LONG AS I CAN TURN IT OFF WHENEVER I WANT.

This is the key. I don't see any conflict to retain M DNA whiles still giving customers access to the day to day luxury the brand and the market demand.

Anyway the duality of the M brand and everyday usefulness of the cars is part of its core character.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by Rupes

In summary, M cars of the future will be much more fun for the computer systems controlling the car.

And if this happens then my days of driving M cars will end and I will move onto something else. BMW had better watch out....

[gds52]

Originally Posted by jaehshim

lol funny because i recall this video about the new F80 interview

Albert Biermann, BMW M VP of engineering, who spent time in M since E30 development had this interview...spending majority of the time just backing up why turbo M3/M4 should be good as the previous generations...and within a month he was in Korea signing contract with Hyundai.

And soon, he created the N brand lol...

Just like Hyundai gave v good competition to Honda/Toyota, I believe N will challenge M as well.

[DrtyJrze]

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

And if this happens then my days of driving M cars will end and I will move onto something else. BMW had better watch out....

What some of you can't get through your thick skulls is that for every one of you that move on to something else 3-5 more will come and take your place.

Bye.

[440xiGCMsport]

Originally Posted by DrtyJrze

What some of you can't get through your thick skulls is that for every one of you that move on to something else 3-5 more will come and take your place.

Bye.

enthusiasts are like early adopters in marketing speak. when enthusiasts go away many others will also follow.

[440xiGCMsport]

@Alden_88M it works for Porsche that they aren't trying to market their 911 and cayman out to as many people as possible.

[B777flyboy]

Originally Posted by Alden_88M

So many people here who don't understands that "M" division is forced to go this way not by choice but by regulations and demands, If you wanna keep "M" available to as many people as possible, But charge extra for a "better" car then the standard. Then they have to adapt even if it means adding hybrid tech to their cars. Otherwise "M" would only available to a small market segment but when reading so many peoples posts here or on the forums overall it seems as this is exactly what some of you people want only make "M" available to certain people and that elitism won't work in this modern world anymore.

Some of you are gonna have to accept this sooner or later, Or don't buy new "M" at all, but don't keep spamming the same old same old "M" cars were better before.

Yes we are going towards hybrid/electric cars, because they perform better then just a plain old tech combustion engine who really isn't an effective way of propelling the cars considering how much energy is lost just to drive faster. And yes we are moving more towards autonomous driving why? Well simple because humans can't compete against computers in terms of avoiding accidents and such and why are we doing it? Because its 2016 and people are still dying in car accidents and that is starting to get old really old. The most urgent thing to resolve right now is how to make electric cars charge up really fast and how to make sure they can go further then right now. This is where Tesla is great they are simply forcing the other brands to develop electric cars faster and to contribute to the development of them, As Tesla is stealing loads of people from different brands and you don't want to lose costumers that is one thing that is for sure.

When are we going to see full electric "M" cars well probably not for another 10-15 years so relax people. What you can do instead of crying about the combustion engines starting to disappear is to help be part of an "M" future where its still a drivers car but who can meet the modern day regulations and demands so we won't see "M" division disappear for good. Every year the regulations are getting tougher and tougher and thus leaving the old combustion engine tech behind makes more sens and adapting to more environmental friendly cars. So don't force BMW and BMW M to having to think like this "Well if we gain 5 new customers to our brand but having to loose 1 "purist" or "fan" or "enthusiast" whatever you wanna call your self i think you know what BMWs answer will be. So better be a part of a future then to be cut out from it.

I truly believe that an "M" car can be both friendly towards our environment but also be a hell of a drivers car, While giving up something old for something new and better.

Electric is incredibly less efficient for the output vs energy in. And spare the environmental impact. All of the changes occurring in cars is a result of politicians, not market.

[Chihuahua]

when you hand the reigns over to someone that came from Audi, you end up with Audi. I think it is very telling that Albert Biermann abruptly exited stage left and went to work for another manufacturer. BMW is not the enthusiast brand it once was.

RIP BMW M. 1972-2015.

[SammiK]

This guys is the worst host and the most boring interviewer. I hate all of his videos.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by DrtyJrze

What some of you can't get through your thick skulls is that for every one of you that move on to something else 3-5 more will come and take your place.

Bye.

Really? BMW's sales figures for this year seem to suggest otherwise. It could be an anomaly or it could be a trend, but BMW's USA sales of cars, not SUV's, is in decline.

[marcva]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMsport

@Alden_88M it works for Porsche that they aren't trying to market their 911 and cayman out to as many people as possible.

Porsche has a couple cousins that help pay the bills... Audi, the VW, etc...BMW doesn't have the luxury of a conglomeration of different marques to provide a capital base from which to fund all of the development a car manufacturer needs to survive as the market evolves. They need to diversify the core product line accordingly.

[marcva]

What should be concerning BMW is the end game for Autonomous cars. How does anyone reconcile that with a "driver's car?" Will there be a "Hoon" setting? If we're reduced to riding in Johnny Cabs then the premise of BMW, Porsche and all other performance cars diminishes/disappears. Then we'll see how many old-timers are clinging to their antique models and fighting progress.

"Look mom! No driver's assist!"

"You take your hands off the wheel, NOW!" 8^/

[PKumarM3]

BMW does make true drivers cars. Some of them just don't happen to be in the M division any more

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by Alden_88M

So many people here who don't understands that "M" division is forced to go this way not by choice but by regulations and demands.

Yes we are going towards hybrid/electric cars, because they perform better then just a plain old tech combustion engine who really isn't an effective way of propelling the cars considering how much energy is lost just to drive faster. And yes we are moving more towards autonomous driving why?

Because its 2016 and people are still dying in car accidents and that is starting to get old really old.

There's a better way forward, my friend. Each of these cars are "halos" for the company, like the M4 GTS is for BMW. The "character" of each car, to use BMW-speak, speaks to my passion in a manner the BMW doesn't. Chevy, Ford, and Porsche seem committed to their enthusiast core, while still growing the business and coping with identical regulatory, legislative, political, and environmental challenges as BMW. They will likely need to adopt new propulsion in the future, but they aren't rushing to embrace that tech on their halo cars today.

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by reprod

I would be happy if they could give me the tech but keep driving characteristics at the same time. This is hugely optimistic thinking, but, you never know.

I'll admit, there are times where I am stuck in traffic and I just want the car to drive itself.

I was talking to one of my co-workers yesterday who has a Tesla and this exactly what he loves about the autopilot feature. Switching it on in traffic.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMsport

enthusiasts are like early adopters in marketing speak. when enthusiasts go away many others will also follow.

And the definition of 'enthusiasts' to marketers -- and in general, actually -- is not always yours. For instance: the Gen2 Prius took off because several levels of environmental enthusiast -- from the hardcore to the trendy -- signed on to own one.

I guarantee every member of this forum that ///M, Hyundai N, AMG, Porsche, etc. are looking for new markets as vigorously as BMW i, Tesla, TRI, Google, etc. I'm in marketing as well (after a career as a journalist, so I've seen multiple sides). One of the first things any good marketer should embrace is that there are as many, if not more, new markets to open as markets that already exist. The key -- and the challenge -- is producing something to activate that new market.

So sorry, auto 'enthusiasts'. Your definition of that word still fits, but it's rapidly becoming more of a stereotype than an economic force. Yeah, you (OK, 'we'; I still subscribe, but I'm a realist) still matter somewhat because you're sexy. But honestly, alternative propulsion (i.e., non-ICE) is sexier because it has more power to more people -- consumers, governments, urbanites, techies, Millennials, what have you.

[Yeru]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

I don't mind if they pump M models with all this tech AS LONG AS I CAN TURN IT OFF WHENEVER I WANT.

Yes, so we can also "bully" (the media's words, not mine) fully autonomous cars :

[EEBreh]

Conclusion: Porsche > BMW

Originally Posted by krautmeister

Just as well... millennial males are pussies and becoming more and more effeminate, so no amount of plaid or beard oil will substitute for real masculine attributes.

What? M Cars were never considered to be something that required a lot of testosterone to drive or were "masculine". A 930, yes...M Cars...no. I don't see how millennials would cause the M Brand to get any worse...since a majority of them don't have the capital to get an M car.

[krautmeister]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMsport

kraft meister I think in terms of marketing you are completely incorrect. Sure you can whore out the brand like MB and Audi but then there is no distinction of BMW as the ultimate driving experience and it will just be another brand.
if we look at BMW and the older M3's and compare it to other older AMG and RS cars we can see that the M3's hold value much better and even sometimes increase in value because people know it drives better than the competition. AMG and RS cars depreciate until worth nothing fairly quickly because no one wants them because they don't have the cache or driving fun of an M car. BMW image is based upon this and hence all younger people want a M car and it brings them into the brand early.
M brand is important to BMW and it should not have short term view. instead of halo car you have halo brand and if you dilute the brand it no longer has a halo to it.

Hey man, I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying. But what should happen is different than what will probably happen. The slew of Mxxxi should tell you that badge being not a full Mx is a marketing positioning tool. Just as he SLine and any AMG goodies you can option your merc with.

I'm stating the fact that BMW has fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders and cashing in on brand equity for a rainy day is business 101. Ok I'm in private equity so a lot of my horizon is shorter term than others but companies go through cycles.

[Meast]

Sounds like they still want to keep the essence of the M Division, but want to add technology (aka autonomous driving attributes) as is deemed fit and required. This isn't a big deal because I imagine you can always turn it on/off, as I believe BMW will maintain the M Division as a driver's car foremost, but who can say what the laws will be come 5 years from now, let alone 15-30?

That being said, this CEO doesn't seem too enthusiastic about the division as a whole!