[ORIGIN M.]

I am not much of a fan either, and my first thought was,,, Good Lord, I thought he retired...

However, he is scary-correct isn't he.

Originally Posted by raysspl

Not much of a fan of Lutz due to his stodgy & unimaginative approach (relatively) in the automotive industry

[scoale]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Nope he got on the bridge before you, it seems you are now on said Island.

Gonna be a LOT of people on that island. First time I've ever heard anyone refer to the award winning S65 as the wrong engine for the E90/92 M3

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gthal

BMW is a company in business to earn profit like any other. They have a duty to their shareholders to do just that. If the market will buy it, they will build it and they will build it how the mass market wants it. Small groups of enthusiasts won't impact that, unfortunately.

However, I do believe BMW M will continue to build great cars for the niche market. The M2 is a great, current, example

I'm sorry but I have to rant a bit here. I'm sick and tired of this Ivy League business axiom that the duty of a company is to its share holders. I think this is just utter fucking bullshit, and has screwed up more perfectly good well-run companies than any economic downturn cycle. Any businesses first and foremost "duty" is to its Customers, not share holders. If a company holds true to its customers, the stock price will reflect it.

[Kayani_1]

After two decades as a BMW owner of E46, E39, E60, E65, and E92. My last purchase of BMW cars stopped once it came time to replace my E60 545i. I test drove the new 3 series, 5 series, 6 series, and 7 series. They all failed to impress me with their extra floaty rides, dead steering feel, and simply lack of that magical perfect balance of sporty and luxury that no longer exists. Thus, I did not replace my E60 5 series with another BMW, when the time came to do so. I still own my E92 335i and have driven all including the 2 series as a replacement option. I just don't care for the new direction or feel of BMW cars. Its too much luxury and not enough sports. That just enough dash of raw feeling and that connectedness with the car and driver being one is sort of gone for me.

I complained on these forums loudly, even got banned from one, the bimmerfest I think lol!!. My comments of BMW criticism were offensive to the new breed of BMW owners, who complained against me, because it made them feel inferior about their prestigious purchase.

Since, I stopped complaining loudly, and have just spoke with my wallet. I have stopped buying BMW cars and my last replacement car for my E60 was not any current newer model BMW's. My next replacement car for my E92 will not be any current BMW cars.

To the BMW management and project leaders in charge of making cars. Please, take a cue from Ford or Chevy. They new C7 stingray or Mustang GT350 or GT350R are much more of true affordable enthusiast cars than any thing BMW offers. They are making a better effort to attract enthusiast. I still like Porsche brand. But have never gotten into it, manily due to their price point always being so much higher and unpractical especially if you add any decent options.

I do not dislike all new BMW's. The M2 is a better effort but still has a same ol dead steering feel and honestly is a bit pricey for the power it offers when you look at GT350 or C7 stingray as possible options. The i8 is a good effort but ditto, it lacks true sustained grunt for super car price and the skinny tires and dead steering still take away from it being a drivers car. The M3 GTS is not affordable for me atleast not as an M4.


Bye Bye BMW........good luck emulating Toyota Camrys or Toyota Corolla of the world. I am sure you will ride the badge prestige to many sales, until the badge prestige worshippers move on to the next best thing and the prestige and persona of BMW magical cars falls to way side due to constant criticism by media and enthusiasts.

Remembers, enthusiast and automotive media are loud vocal and build brand prestige over time and wannabe prestige badge worshipper follow behind to discover what the fuss is all about and buy products that are highly praised by them.

Every person among friends and family now that asks me for advise as a car guy instead of singing praises of BMW cars and how impressive they drove. I tell them the truth of how boring they have become and how I would not recommend one or buy one.

BMW, fails to realize the long term harm they have done to their brand prestige by alienating the enthusiasts.

Enough ranting lol!! I only came to check E9x forum and got drawn into this. Don't wanna get banned of another BMW forum as I like meeting with older model BMW owners and still participating in cool things that come out for older BMW's. Also, sorry if I offended any new model BMW owners.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

After two decades as a BMW owner of E46, E39, E60, E65, and E92. My last purchase of BMW cars stopped once it came time to replace my E60 545i. I test drove the new 3 series, 5 series, 6 series, and 7 series. They all failed to impress me with their extra floaty rides, dead steering feel, and simply lack of that magical perfect balance of sporty and luxury was just not there any longer. Thus, I did not replace my E60 5 series with another BMW when time came. I still own my E92 335i and have driven all including the 2 series as a replacement option. I just don't care for the new direction or feel of BMW cars. Its too much luxury and not enough sports. That just enough dash of raw feeling and that connectedness with the car and driver being one is sort of gone for me.

I complained on these forums loudly, even got banned from one the bimmerfest I think lol!!. As my comments of BMW criticism were offensive to the new breed of BMW owners who complained against me because it made them feel inferior about their prestigious purchase.

Since I stopped complaining loudly and have just spoke with my wallet. I have stopped buying BMW cars and my last replacement car for my E60 was not any current newer model BMW's. My next replacement car for my E92 will not be any current BMW cars.

To the BMW management and project leaders in charge of making cars. Please, take a cue from Ford or Chevy. They new C7 stingray or Mustang GT350 or GT350R are much more of true affordable enthusiast cars than any thing BMW offers. They are making a better effort to attract enthusiast. I still like Porsche brand. But have never gotten into it a lot due to their price point always being so much higher and unpractical especially if you add any decent options.

I do not dislike all new BMW's. The M2 is a better effort but still has a same ol dead steering feel and honestly is a bit pricey for the power it offers when you look at GT350 or C7 stingray as possible options. The i8 is a good effort but ditto, it lacks true sustained grunt for super car price and the skinny tires and dead steering still take away from it being a drivers car.


Bye Bye BMW........good luck emulating Toyota Camrys or Toyota Corolla of the world. I am sure you will ride the badge prestige to many sales, until the badge prestige worshippers move on to the next best thing and the prestige and persona of BMW magical cars falls to way side due to constant criticism by media and enthusiasts.

Remembers, enthusiast and automotive media are loud vocal and build brand prestige over time and wannabe prestige badge worshipper follow behind to discover what the fuss is all about and buy products that are highly praised by them.

Every person among friends and family now that asks me for advise as a car guy instead of singing praises of BMW cars and how impressive they drove. I tell them the truth of how boring they have become and how I would not recommend one or buy one.

BMW, fails to realize the long term harm they have done to their brand prestige by alienating the enthusiasts.

Enough ranting lol!! I only came to check E9x forum and got drawn into this. Don't wanna get banned of another BMW forum as I like meeting with older model BMW owners and still participating in cool things that come out for older BMW's

Well said Sir, well said.

[Kayani_1]

Thanks, bro.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Well said Sir, well said.

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by raysspl

Not much of a fan of Lutz due to his stodgy & unimaginative approach (relatively) in the automotive industry

Can you share examples?

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

After two decades as a BMW owner of E46, E39, E60, E65, and E92. My last purchase of BMW cars stopped once it came time to replace my E60 545i. I test drove the new 3 series, 5 series, 6 series, and 7 series. They all failed to impress me with their extra floaty rides, dead steering feel, and simply lack of that magical perfect balance of sporty and luxury that no longer exists. Thus, I did not replace my E60 5 series with another BMW, when the time came to do so. I still own my E92 335i and have driven all including the 2 series as a replacement option. I just don't care for the new direction or feel of BMW cars. Its too much luxury and not enough sports. That just enough dash of raw feeling and that connectedness with the car and driver being one is sort of gone for me.

I complained on these forums loudly, even got banned from one, the bimmerfest I think lol!!. My comments of BMW criticism were offensive to the new breed of BMW owners, who complained against me, because it made them feel inferior about their prestigious purchase.

Since, I stopped complaining loudly, and have just spoke with my wallet. I have stopped buying BMW cars and my last replacement car for my E60 was not any current newer model BMW's. My next replacement car for my E92 will not be any current BMW cars.

To the BMW management and project leaders in charge of making cars. Please, take a cue from Ford or Chevy. They new C7 stingray or Mustang GT350 or GT350R are much more of true affordable enthusiast cars than any thing BMW offers. They are making a better effort to attract enthusiast. I still like Porsche brand. But have never gotten into it, manily due to their price point always being so much higher and unpractical especially if you add any decent options.

I do not dislike all new BMW's. The M2 is a better effort but still has a same ol dead steering feel and honestly is a bit pricey for the power it offers when you look at GT350 or C7 stingray as possible options. The i8 is a good effort but ditto, it lacks true sustained grunt for super car price and the skinny tires and dead steering still take away from it being a drivers car. The M3 GTS is not affordable for me atleast not as an M4.


Bye Bye BMW........good luck emulating Toyota Camrys or Toyota Corolla of the world. I am sure you will ride the badge prestige to many sales, until the badge prestige worshippers move on to the next best thing and the prestige and persona of BMW magical cars falls to way side due to constant criticism by media and enthusiasts.

Remembers, enthusiast and automotive media are loud vocal and build brand prestige over time and wannabe prestige badge worshipper follow behind to discover what the fuss is all about and buy products that are highly praised by them.

Every person among friends and family now that asks me for advise as a car guy instead of singing praises of BMW cars and how impressive they drove. I tell them the truth of how boring they have become and how I would not recommend one or buy one.

BMW, fails to realize the long term harm they have done to their brand prestige by alienating the enthusiasts.

Enough ranting lol!! I only came to check E9x forum and got drawn into this. Don't wanna get banned of another BMW forum as I like meeting with older model BMW owners and still participating in cool things that come out for older BMW's. Also, sorry if I offended any new model BMW owners.

I sounded a lot like you back in 2003 when the E60's came out with Bangled styling. I had a 97 540 and I was ready to buy the new 5er. When I saw the E60 I repelled. Instead, I bought slightly used 2003 E39 540 with m-tech so I could blow right through the E60 era. I vowed to never buy BMW again. Unfortunately, I wrecked my 2003 E39 or I would probably be still driving it lol. After I recovered from my car wreck I needed a new car. Being a 5er owner for 25 years, I test drove most of the sport luxury sedan competitors. The problem was for me there were no other brands that made me open my wallet. So, I went back and test drove the F10 first and hated it. All the things you said. Then I test drove the F30 and fell in love with the size. I got it equipped with options that made me happy (m-sport, tech, comfort, hud, hk, you name it. I've had it 3 years now and absolutely love it. Amazingly, it was $10k less than my 97 540 16 years later. It is just as fast, handles better, and gets twice the mileage.

Maybe BMW will eventually build something you want and you will be back like I was. Maybe they won't and you will have to go to another brand for a proper sports sedan. Good luck! I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Kevinl]

Even My beloved e30 was a yuppie's car

I'm not here to tell bmw what to do but the crazy light steering on the new cars doesnt make any sense no camry or even an old cadillac has more steering effort

My guess is Bmw made the e90's to stiff and then way overcompensated for the current models

Front wheel drive Bmw's is a big can of worms

[FogCityM3]

Lutz is spot on and says what many of us have been saying for many years and he says it quite succinctly.

[KevinM]

I keep weighing in on these kind of posts and just need to stop. Next time, I guess.

Look, like many of you I've been driving BMWs for a while - in my case since 1999, M cars since 2004. I have and will keep the two BMWs that have impressed me the most - the E39 M5 and Z4M coupe.

Has BMW broadened out its appeal to stay alive as an independent car company? Of course. Anyone who thinks BMW didn't need to do this to stay independent is delusional.

BMW still offers manual transmissions for many of their cars. The M division is still committed to building driver's cars. Perfect? Of course not. Perhaps BMW could be swallowed up by VW as Porsche was. Would that be a good thing? I don't know but my gut says not. Lamborghini and Audi engines the same some models? Reminds me of GM decades ago.

Rant over. But, THANK YOU, BMW for still allowing me in 2016 to buy a rear-wheel drive, manual transmission sports sedan (alternatives are only the Cadillac ATS-V and the Alfa when/if available in the US). Maybe I won't like my F80 on re-delivery as much as I did driving it in Germany, but I'm hopeful. True, I may not own it long-term, but it's an impressive car.

[radelow]

I consider myself a pretty loyal BMW performance car driver (if you look at my list of previous cars I think you'll agree) but I agree with what Lutz says. Yesterday I returned my 2014 X5. It was fully loaded, M-Sport, M Dynamic Suspension etc. etc. but it was the most disappointing BMW I have owned to date. Especially the steering feel. The car had the absolute worst steering I have had in any of the higher end cars I have ever owned. After 18 years for the first time there is not one BMW parked in my garage. It was a sad day but BMW simply has gone away from what they were. Unfortunately they aren't even doing a great job on building a more mass market luxury car as the F15 X5 was nowhere near as good as the competition in terms of interior design, functionality and amenities. It's makes me sad to move on but the cars just don't impress me anymore. When I drive my 911 it is an almost magical experience. Even with the 991's electric steering you feel so connected to the road. You know exactly what the suspension is doing and what the car is going to do. The aural experience is incredible, without the use of speaker wizardry... That is exactly the same feeling I had when I drove my first E36 M3 home the first time... Every BMW since then has been a little less like that... and to be honest, it really makes me sad.

I still can't believe my household is BMW less...

[jeremyr4]

First of all, I want to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts and insights. Like many of you, I have owned many BMWs and I have become very disenchanted with BMW's steering feel over the past few years (man do I miss my last E46 M3 - I was lucky enough to own 3 of them and I still regret selling my last one!). I am clinging to my 2013 E93 M3 for life). I find myself under the assumption that my next car won't be a BMW for the first time in 15 years, which is very disappointing. I am planning on trying the C63, E63 Coupe, Corvette Z06, and possibly a Mustang 350. While I clearly represent a minority of BMW's sales (as an enthusiast), what hasn't been mentioned here at all is the negative effect us enthusiasts will have owning cars from other brands and how that affects other vehicle purchases in our households. Having worked at GM and Toyota HQ, I have seen many internal studies over time showing that the vehicle infleuncer in a household results in a higher likelihood that their preferred brand will be purchased as at least 1 other car in their household. And you can bet on us enthusiasts having an opinion and influence on cars owned within our households. For example, if I end up owning an AMG product and get more exposure to the Mercedes brand then it could result in my household owning more than 1 Mercedes. So we might appear to represent a tiny fraction of sales in that chart but that doesn't accurately paint the whole picture.

Anyhow, I am deeply disappointed by BMW's lack of focus on drivingdynamics in its current lineup and I will likely become an ex-BMW owner in the near future even though I deeply wish that wasn't the case. Very sad. Here's to hoping BMW's future lineup will miraculously make a comeback for us all...

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'm sorry but I have to rant a bit here. I'm sick and tired of this Ivy League business axiom that the duty of a company is to its share holders. I think this is just utter fucking bullshit, and has screwed up more perfectly good well-run companies than any economic downturn cycle. Any businesses first and foremost "duty" is to its Customers, not share holders. If a company holds true to its customers, the stock price will reflect it.

Your new name is Jerry McGuire

I don't disagree that a company can do both. The thing is, BMW may still be doing that. It's just directed at a different customer than those on this forum because there are more of them than us. They are upholding their duty to their largest customer base.

M focuses more on us (whether they get it right or wrong is debatable) but BMW itself focuses on the mass market.

Just to be clear, I wish the focus wasn't shifting too. All I'm saying is that it isn't surprising, isn't necessarily a poor business move and isn't isolated to BMW. It's the law of supply and demand.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

This current state of BMW isn't driven by the need to profit, it is driven by greed.

Isn't this the EXACT same thing

[Kayani_1]

Thank you, and I hope that somewhere down the line they change their philosophy of building blander cars to keep masses happy. I hope they start making cars whose steering wheels are alive with feel and feedback. The cars that have that perfect balance of sports and luxury. The cars that offer that connectedness feel to the driver like very few brands could.

There is a slight difference between your and my frustration. I was owner of a E39 5 series for 5 years before I moved to a E60 5 series. For you the looks were the make or break it deal. For me on the other hands the looks were important, but they were not the deal breaker ever. Because to be honest BMW's were not always the absolute gorgeous best looking cars even in their own class mostly. They were ok looking, but one thing you could count on was the driving dynamics and that special steering feel & connectedness of driver and car. So for me the E60 seemed evolutionary yet still offered that connected feel. Given it was less raw and slightly more sedated then the E39.

By the way congrats on your 3 series. The problem I believe is that one has to drive E9x equipped properly back to back with the F3x and you come out shaking your head that how they went backwards. I have driven all various versions of the F3x too, from 328i, 335i, 428i, to the new 340i sports pkg fully loaded to the teeth with added Dinan mods of 15K (i.e. Dinan exhaust, body enhancements, Diana software enhancement, etc.), and none of them were satisfying like the E9x. By the way it has nothing to do with the looks. As I absolutely like the looks of the new M4. Also, yes E9x gained some refinement over E46, but it was not like you would get out and shake your head and look again to see if you were actually driving a BMW.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that finding a proper new sports sedan can be very challenging now a days. The verdict is still out but maybe the new Alfa sedan might be the answer to the void that BMW left with its new direction.

In the meantime enjoy your F30 3 series in best of health.

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I sounded a lot like you back in 2003 when the E60's came out with Bangled styling. I had a 97 540 and I was ready to buy the new 5er. When I saw the E60 I repelled. Instead, I bought slightly used 2003 E39 540 with m-tech so I could blow right through the E60 era. I vowed to never buy BMW again. Unfortunately, I wrecked my 2003 E39 or I would probably be still driving it lol. After I recovered from my car wreck I needed a new car. Being a 5er owner for 25 years, I test drove most of the sport luxury sedan competitors. The problem was for me there were no other brands that made me open my wallet. So, I went back and test drove the F10 first and hated it. All the things you said. Then I test drove the F30 and fell in love with the size. I got it equipped with options that made me happy (m-sport, tech, comfort, hud, hk, you name it. I've had it 3 years now and absolutely love it. Amazingly, it was $10k less than my 97 540 16 years later. It is just as fast, handles better, and gets twice the mileage.

Maybe BMW will eventually build something you want and you will be back like I was. Maybe they won't and you will have to go to another brand for a proper sports sedan. Good luck! I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Kayani_1]

Exactly, my earlier post mentioned the same thing, that us enthusiast might be a smaller group overall but we influence many car purchases when it comes to our family or friends.

Glad to hear that you actually worked in car industry and understand what I was trying to convey in my post earlier. I am in similar boat as you and hoping that BMW gets back pointed in the right direction of making cars that both general public loved and enthusiasts loved.

Originally Posted by jeremyr4

First of all, I want to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts and insights. Like many of you, I have owned many BMWs and I have become very disenchanted with BMW's steering feel over the past few years (man do I miss my last E46 M3 - I was lucky enough to own 3 of them and I still regret selling my last one!). I am clinging to my 2013 E93 M3 for life). I find myself under the assumption that my next car won't be a BMW for the first time in 15 years, which is very disappointing. I am planning on trying the C63, E63 Coupe, Corvette Z06, and possibly a Mustang 350. While I clearly represent a minority of BMW's sales (as an enthusiast), what hasn't been mentioned here at all is the negative effect us enthusiasts will have owning cars from other brands and how that affects other vehicle purchases in our households. Having worked at GM and Toyota HQ, I have seen many internal studies over time showing that the vehicle infleuncer in a household results in a higher likelihood that their preferred brand will be purchased as at least 1 other car in their household. And you can bet on us enthusiasts having an opinion and influence on cars owned within our households. For example, if I end up owning an AMG product and get more exposure to the Mercedes brand then it could result in my household owning more than 1 Mercedes. So we might appear to represent a tiny fraction of sales in that chart but that doesn't accurately paint the whole picture.

Anyhow, I am deeply disappointed by BMW's lack of focus on drivingdynamics in its current lineup and I will likely become an ex-BMW owner in the near future even though I deeply wish that wasn't the case. Very sad. Here's to hoping BMW's future lineup will miraculously make a comeback for us all...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

Thank you, and I hope that somewhere down the line they change their philosophy of building blander cars to keep masses happy. I hope they start making cars whose steering wheels are alive with feel and feedback. The cars that have that perfect balance of sports and luxury. The cars that offer that connectedness feel to the driver like very few brands could.

There is a slight difference between your and my frustration. I was owner of a E39 5 series for 5 years before I moved to a E60 5 series. For you the looks were the make or break it deal. For me on the other hands the looks were important, but they were not the deal breaker ever. Because to be honest BMW's were not always the absolute gorgeous best looking cars even in their own class mostly. They were ok looking, but one thing you could count on was the driving dynamics and that special steering feel & connectedness of driver and car. So for me the E60 seemed evolutionary yet still offered that connected feel. Given it was less raw and slightly more sedated then the E39.

By the way congrats on your 3 series. The problem I believe is that one has to drive E9x equipped properly back to back with the F3x and you come out shaking your head that how they went backwards. I have driven all various versions of the F3x too, from 328i, 335i, 428i, to the new 340i sports pkg fully loaded to the teeth with added Dinan mods of 15K (i.e. Dinan exhaust, body enhancements, Diana software enhancement, etc.), and none of them were satisfying like the E9x. By the way it has nothing to do with the looks. As I absolutely like the looks of the new M4. Also, yes E9x gained some refinement over E46, but it was not like you would get out and shake your head and look again to see if you were actually driving a BMW.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that finding a proper new sports sedan can be very challenging now a days. The verdict is still out but maybe the new Alfa sedan might be the answer to the void that BMW left with its new direction.

In the meantime enjoy your F30 3 series in best of health.

Not a flame here, but Cadillac has picked up the ball from BMW. The ATS and CTS are very fine driving automobiles, and you don't have to get an expensive V to get a good driving version of them. The Chevy SS is far overlooked as a choice too. The New Jag XE appears to fill the void too. What is disappointing is the original attribute of the 3 series was you could get a great dynamic handling car with a manual trans and rearwheel drive for a decent price. It's seems now the market has moved to where that type of car from BMW is only found with a $20K M badge on it, and it has turned into an overpowered, over-expensive, almost gaudy, caricature of itself.

The best new 3-series I have driven is the ATS.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by jeremyr4

First of all, I want to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts and insights. Like many of you, I have owned many BMWs and I have become very disenchanted with BMW's steering feel over the past few years (man do I miss my last E46 M3 - I was lucky enough to own 3 of them and I still regret selling my last one!). I am clinging to my 2013 E93 M3 for life). I find myself under the assumption that my next car won't be a BMW for the first time in 15 years, which is very disappointing. I am planning on trying the C63, E63 Coupe, Corvette Z06, and possibly a Mustang 350. While I clearly represent a minority of BMW's sales (as an enthusiast), what hasn't been mentioned here at all is the negative effect us enthusiasts will have owning cars from other brands and how that affects other vehicle purchases in our households. Having worked at GM and Toyota HQ, I have seen many internal studies over time showing that the vehicle infleuncer in a household results in a higher likelihood that their preferred brand will be purchased as at least 1 other car in their household. And you can bet on us enthusiasts having an opinion and influence on cars owned within our households. For example, if I end up owning an AMG product and get more exposure to the Mercedes brand then it could result in my household owning more than 1 Mercedes. So we might appear to represent a tiny fraction of sales in that chart but that doesn't accurately paint the whole picture.

Anyhow, I am deeply disappointed by BMW's lack of focus on drivingdynamics in its current lineup and I will likely become an ex-BMW owner in the near future even though I deeply wish that wasn't the case. Very sad. Here's to hoping BMW's future lineup will miraculously make a comeback for us all...

Having owned a C63 and having driven an E63 on a test track with MB, I believe you will find the BMW equivalent to be more compelling from a driving dynamics perspective (ignoring raw power). I never "fell in love" with my C63 and, looking back, it was my least favourite car in the last 6 or 7 years. I really liked it and felt like BMW owners underestimated its handling prowess and overall quality but I never really connected with it like my M cars. I don't find AMG does a better job on the driving dynamics of their cars than BMW M... as a matter of fact, I think they are worse on an overall basis. Can't speak to the GT350.

Now, a C7 Z06... that's a different story That would be the option to pick if 4 seats aren't a requirement. Heck, a regular Z51 is the car to pick The other option is an M2... so far, it's one of the most fun M cars I've owned from a "driving dynamics" perspective. IMO, it's BMW best current effort to get back to their roots, so to speak, and it is a really fun driving experience. There's still hope for BMW

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by gthal

Isn't this the EXACT same thing

No.

[clar]

BMW must never forget that many non enthusiasts do base their decisions on reviews. It won't help them if the new cars kept getting ding and coming behind the competition. It's rumored that the next M5 will use the same engine as the F10 M5. That's basically been counters' work right there. M cars must always serve as the halo cars for the entire family! Such cost cutting on the halo models cannot be forgiven!

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

I wholeheartedly agree with you that finding a proper new sports sedan can be very challenging now a days. The verdict is still out but maybe the new Alfa sedan might be the answer to the void that BMW left with its new direction.

In the meantime enjoy your F30 3 series in best of health.

Closest modern car to the classic BMWs:
http://www.cadillac.com/v-series.html

To those who say they would never consider buying an American car, drive it. I used to swear I would only buy German. Emotions about brand loyalty run strong, most especially among enthusiasts like us. I understand there are those who will never consider an American car, mostly because American cars used to be so horrible.

I've said this before - it must have been hell to work as an engineer / product manager / marketing person in Detroit in the 70s and 80s, being forced to build crap by bean counters like the ones directing the strategy at BMW today. Now, those formerly young Detroit employees are Directors, EVPs, and CXOs. I'm of the opinion they have a huge chip on their shoulder from the painful memories of the past, and have something big to prove.