Considering 128i

[Gangplank]

I'm thinking about picking up a 128i. I'm looking at one locally that's a 2012 CPO but it's an N51 SULEV. What are the differences between N51 SULEV vs N52?

Looks to be equipped pretty well w/ what I find important, but I'm not exactly sure what packages are on it after running the vin. Doing some research on that right now. ;-)

[chris82]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

I'm thinking about picking up a 128i. I'm looking at one locally that's a 2012 CPO but it's an N51 SULEV. What are the differences between N51 SULEV vs N52?

Looks to be equipped pretty well w/ what I find important, but I'm not exactly sure what packages are on it after running the vin. Doing some research on that right now. ;-)

They're pretty similar. The N51 has a slightly different compression ratio and the 3 stage intake manifold (the one on the 330i). They produce the same power.

[Gangplank]

Yep that's what I thought. So the only real difference is that it's got some different/more expensive parts so SULEV if or when they might fail. Not a deal breaker for me.

The car is equipped w/ what I'm looking for so I might be checking it out Monday.


I'm trying to figure what pack packages are on it. Here is what pulls up on the Vin.

Order Options
1CA SELECT. COP RELEVANT VEHICLES
2TM TRANS. TYPE CONTROLLER
2VB TYRE PRESSURE INDICATOR
205 AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
248 STEERING WHEEL HEATING
249 MULTI-FUNCTION STEERING WHEEL
319 INTEGRATED UNIVERSAL REMOTE CONTROL
346 CHROME-LINE EXTERIOR
4AS FINE-WOOD TRIM OPLAR GRAIN GREY
4NA INTERIOR MIRROR WITH DIG. COMPASS
403 GLAS ROOF, ELECTRIC
430 INT/EXT RR VW MIRROR W AUT ANTI-DAZZLE
431 INTERIOR RR VW MIRROR W AUT ANTI-D
442 CUPHOLDER
459 SEAT ADJUSTM., ELECTR. W. MEMORY
488 LUMBAR SUPPORT DRIVER/FRONT PASSENGER
494 SEAT HEATING F DRIVER/FRONT PASSENGER
521 RAIN SENSOR
534 AUTOMATIC AIR CONDITIONING
540 CRUISE CONTROL
563 LIGHTS PACKAGE
570 STRONGER ELECTRICITY SUPPLY
6AA BMW TELESERVICES
6AB CONTROL TELESERVICES
6FL USB-/AUDIO INTERFACE
6UH TRAFFIC INFORMATION
6VC CONTROL COMBOX
609 NAVIGATION SYSTEM PROF.
615 EXTENDED BMW ONLINE INFO.
620 VOICE INPUT SYSTEM
639 COMPLETE PREP. CELL. PH. USA
655 SATELLITE RADIO
676 HIFI LOUDSPEAKER SYSTEM
697 AREA-CODE 1
8SC COUNTRY SPEC. TELESERVICE
8SP COP CONTROL
8TN DAYTIME DRIVING LIGHTS SELECTABLE B

Series options
2D1 STAR SPOKE 262 WHEELS
255 SPORTS LEATHER STEERING WHEEL
321 EXTERIOR PARTS IN BODY COLOR
473 ARMREST, FRONT
520 FOGLIGHTS

[Gangplank]

Seems like it have cold & performance packages but not sure?

Has all of these + ?

Cold Weather Pkg - ZCW
Headlight Wipers/Washers;
Heated Seats;
[494] Heated Front Seats
REQUIRES:
[248] Heated Steering Wheel
$700

Premium Pkg - ZPP
[LW**] Boston Leather Seat Trim;
[459] Dual Power Seat Adjusters;
[639] BMW Assist Communication System;
[403] Power Glass Moon Roof; Garage Door Opener; Ambient Lighting; Compass; Inside Automatic Day/Night Mirror; O/S Automatic Day/Night Mirrors; Power Lumbar Seat Adjusters; Driver's Seat Memory
$4000

Navigation System, Voice Activated - 609
Real-Time Traffic Information;
Online Information Services;
Cup Holders; Voice Activation;
[639] BMW Assist Communication System
Models After 9/1/2011.
$2100

[NorthernDancer]

Very much the luxury car with automatic tranny. Looks like no sports pkg hence no sports seats. It will be a great car if that's what you want. I'm on the other side, I want sports pkg and manual trans.

[champignon]

I would not buy a SULEV 128i. One "advantage" of the 128i over the 135i is the simplicity of its engine and expected to be lower maintenance and repair costs in the future. The added complexity of the SULEV engine negates at least some of this, at least theoretically. I can tell you also that your resale potential will be reduced, as some potential buyers won't even consider a SULEV model, and others are likely to expect a discount.

Finally, without the manual transmission, the 128i will not have the power and acceleration that would allow some here to consider it to be an adequate substitute for a 135i. As stated by others above, I would also not buy one without at least the sports seats and the sports suspension (the M Steering wheel is less important and you could always add that later at fairly minimal cost should you so desire).

Unfortunately, trying to find a 128i with 6MT and a sports package with lowish mileage and at a reasonable price is a task that I decided, myself, was not worth the effort. When you find one, given its rarity, you will be asked to pay within spitting distance of what a similarly equipped 135i costs, since the 135i cars were often outfitted this way, whereas the 128i was sold mostly as an economy car, with spartan features and often AT.

[850tgul]

Flip side is that the N51 cars come with a federally mandated 15 yr/150k warranty on SULEV related parts.

Regardless, option 205 is a deal breaker

[Gangplank]

Ok suppose I should have mentioned that the 6MT is a sacrifice I have to live with for this purchase. My wife needs to be able to drive it too so 6AT it is.

The sports suspension is one of the things I've debated but i've got some upgrades in mind for this One. Anyway... ;-')

Sports seats vs. standard seats w/ lumbar that much of a difference?

What else?

[Gangplank]

Sports seats vs. standard seats w/ lumbar that much of a difference?

[chris82]

Originally Posted by champignon

I would not buy a SULEV 128i. One "advantage" of the 128i over the 135i is the simplicity of its engine and expected to be lower maintenance and repair costs in the future. The added complexity of the SULEV engine negates at least some of this, at least theoretically. I can tell you also that your resale potential will be reduced, as some potential buyers won't even consider a SULEV model, and others are likely to expect a discount.

Do you have any evidence of the N51 being less reliable than the N52? If so I'd like to hear it, because I have the N51. The parts that are SULEV specific are covered by a federally mandated warranty as 850tgul said. Please provide evidence if you are going to spread statements like this

Originally Posted by 850tgul

Flip side is that the N51 cars come with a federally mandated 15 yr/150k warranty on SULEV related parts.

Regardless, option 205 is a deal breaker

[850tgul]

OP if auto is a must I would really go for a 135. I love my 128 but would love it much less if it was auto. The 135 and its turbo torque can still bring smiles with an auto. Better yet try to grab a later model 135 with the DCT transmission.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by chris82

Do you have any evidence of the N51 being less reliable than the N52? If so I'd like to hear it, because I have the N51. The parts that are SULEV specific are covered by a federally mandated warranty as 850tgul said. Please provide evidence if you are going to spread statements like this

One does not need proof; I don't have any nor would I personally need any to decide that I do not want to own one.

There are no advantages to the owner to have the SULEV engine, other than if it makes you feel good, like, for example, buying a "carbon offset" at the same time as you buy your airplane ticket. There IS added complexity in the engine, and the benefit to the owner is ZERO, except for the above. The fact that you have extended warranty coverage on something that doesn't belong in there in the first place, is to me like an offer of free maternity care given to a male. If one wants to feel "environmentally honorable" as regards their choice of a car, I suggest buying a Prius, not a BMW.

Some people enjoy going through their trash, washing out bottles, separating all their stuff, then putting it out on the curb for the recycling truck (even though, in many instances, there is no real benefit to the "environment" by doing so with "post consumer recyclables.") As perhaps you are noticing, I am not one of those people . . . . . but, for those who get pleasure from spending some of their time doing this, I support your efforts.

Again, all that matters is perception. I would be willing to bet you a very large sum of money that SULEV equipped BMW 128i vehicles are considered less desirable, on average, when compared to otherwise identical non-SULEV vehicles, and sell more slowly as used cars. I personally avoided them without even considering them, at all, every time one came up for sale that initially interested me when I was looking at 128is.

And, I promise you, I am not alone.

[Gangplank]

Do you know what exactly are the different parts?

[Gray_Panther]

Originally Posted by champignon

One does not need proof; I don't have any nor would I personally need any to decide that I do not want to own one.

There are no advantages to the owner to have the SULEV engine, other than if it makes you feel good, like, for example, buying a "carbon offset" at the same time as you buy your airplane ticket. There IS added complexity in the engine, and the benefit to the owner is ZERO, except for the above. The fact that you have extended warranty coverage on something that doesn't belong in there in the first place, is to me like an offer of free maternity care given to a male. If one wants to feel "environmentally honorable" as regards their choice of a car, I suggest buying a Prius, not a BMW.

Some people enjoy going through their trash, washing out bottles, separating all their stuff, then putting it out on the curb for the recycling truck (even though, in many instances, there is no real benefit to the "environment" by doing so with "post consumer recyclables.") As perhaps you are noticing, I am not one of those people . . . . . but, for those who get pleasure from spending some of their time doing this, I support your efforts.

Again, all that matters is perception. I would be willing to bet you a very large sum of money that SULEV equipped BMW 128i vehicles are considered less desirable, on average, when compared to otherwise identical non-SULEV vehicles, and sell more slowly as used cars. I personally avoided them without even considering them, at all, every time one came up for sale that initially interested me when I was looking at 128is.

And, I promise you, I am not alone.

I think he is trolling. I too have a N51, my parent's 1er has the N52. No difference.
Reliability is also just as strong as the N52. The 128i's are generally strong cars.
That federally mandated warranty is an amazing perk over the N52. Also it comes with stage 3 DISA manifold, so you can easily flash a tune for a nice bump in power and throttle response!

I would pick N51 over N52 anyday.

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by champignon

One does not need proof; I don't have any nor would I personally need any

Wow. Just, wow.

[Gangplank]

After reading up I agree. Not enough of a reason to care. In fact the fact it has the 3 Stage '30i manifold is a bonus ;-). CPO & 23.5k mi. big plus.

The only thing it's missing is the sport seats really and I'm wondering how much that'll matter OR if I might be Abe to find some at a pick a part junkyard.

[Gangplank]

The 135i reliability concerns me. I've got a 545i now. I'm not looking to replace it with something else with potential problems.

I'm looking to build up a daily driver that handles fantastic & has a reasonable fun factor.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

Wow. Just, wow.

BMWs are (reputed to be, or at least used to be) performance automobiles. The 128i is to an extent an outlier, because it is a cheaper car with crossover for people seeking a "near luxury" experience with some of the accoutrements of a luxury car, at a cheaper price. No doubt this is why so many 128is sold without any of the attractive upgrades, such as sports suspension, sports seats, M Sports steering wheel, and leather upholstery. They were essentially expensive economy cars masquerading as near-luxury cars. Their sole salvation was that they were naturally aspirated, not turbos, however some have raised issues with their magnesium containing engine blocks as being troublesome.

In contrast, the 135i was much more of a performance vehicle, cost more money, and came stock with the sports suspension, plus a large percentage of them were equipped with leather seating, sports seating, sports steering wheel, and all came with the sports suspension. And, I have no figures to support this, however looking at sales listings it appears that at least 1/3 of the 135is came with 6MT, probably more like 40-45%, and were clearly designed for people whose interest in the car was buying a performance vehicle and not an economy vehicle.

Assuming that some examples of the 1-Series will become collectible, I can assure you that collectors do not want a 128i with added feel-good gobbledy-gook governmentally required emissions hardware as part of the package, regardless of any governmentally required warranty on this unneeded shit.

The 128i SULEV, regardless of other features in an individual car, will become the equivalent of an SMG-equipped E46 M3; no one will want it, and if you sell it then you will take a huge haircut in the transaction to a collector. And there will be nothing you can do to fix it, because the VIN Check robots don't tell lies, and even if you try to get rid of some of the crap that the government made them put on the car, it will be like those E46 M3s that were sold with SMG, that have been "converted" to be manual transmission cars. Still, no one will want them as they are marked for life.

Go do a little research on E46 SMG transmission cars if you are unfamiliar with the subject. This is history, this is reality, and this will come back to bite you in the ass if you think you are collecting something worth collecting, as history does repeat itself on this sort of thing.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

The 135i reliability concerns me. I've got a 545i now. I'm not looking to replace it with something else with potential problems.

I'm looking to build up a daily driver that handles fantastic & has a reasonable fun factor.

Buy a Subaru STi. They are fast, they have great hydraulic steering, you can buy an extended warranty from Subaru at modest cost that will cover the car out to 6 or 7 years, and your job is done.

BMW does not make anything like what you seek, you are on the wrong forum.

Check out iwsti.com

[Fume]

One thing I would add to N51 vs N52 if you plan to autocross is that if you want to compete in STX, it's nice that the N51 comes with the 3 stage intake manifold as it is illegal to modify that without getting bumped up to street prepared (where 128i is not competitive).

[Gangplank]

The one above is 2013 w/ 23.5k mi & CPO warranty until 4/30/2018.

I found another that looks good. This one is an 08 n52 w/ 43k but not CPO & no warranty. It's equipped almost the same but is looks to be an M-sport w/ comfort access. This one costs $2000 less.

2SL ALLOY WHEELS STAR SPOKE 262/MB
2XA SPORTS LEATH.STEERING WHEEL+GEAR
249 MULTI-FUNCTION FOR STEERING WHEEL
319 INTEGRATED UNIVERSAL REMOTE CONTROL
322 COMFORT ACCESS
481 SPORT SEATS F DRIVER/FRONT PASSENGER
488 LUMBAR SUPPORT DRIVER/FRONT PASSENGER
676 HIFI LOUDSPEAKER SYSTEM
704 M SPORT SUSPENSION

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by champignon

Buy a Subaru STi. They are fast, they have great hydraulic steering, you can buy an extended warranty from Subaru at modest cost that will cover the car out to 6 or 7 years, and your job is done.

BMW does not make anything like what you seek, you are on the wrong forum.

Check out iwsti.com

Not interested in a Subaru Sti. Not a teenager anymore & looking for something with soul & style not something that feels like it's plastic.